Sunday, August 26, 2007

Claim that scientists recreated OBEs untrue. Debunking an inaccurate news story.

Here is the recent news claim...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20070823/sc_afp/usscienceparanormal_070823220839 - Scientists recreate out-of-body experiences (no drugs)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/6960612.stm - Out-of-body experience recreated

http://www.nature.com/news/2007/070820/full/070820-9.html - Illusion mimics out-of-body experiences

That is the claim that news stories are running with, but a closer examination reveals this simply isn't true at all.

The device used in the new research in question is nothing more than an optical illusion, where the person is fully conscious and alert, and placed in a stagnate simulated autoscopy perception generated by virtual reality. Totally different than a real OBE.

In a real OBE for example, the person is either in an unconscious state or a flat-lined state where brain-wave activity is nill, the person is completely detached from all feeling and senses of the physical body, sometimes the person will have 360 degree ultra clear vision from every angle of the room, and the person actually wanders around while OBE in many cases, not staying stagnate in one position, wandering far outside of their line of sight, like going into the hallway, or the waiting room, or the roof of the building, going into the street and other areas, and Veridically seeing & hearing events, objects, people, writing, events, and conversations there, which can later be checked and verified to be true in a number of well documented and well researched cases. There are even well documented cases of persons who are blind and persons who were born blind having visually veridical OBEs.

Dr. Jeff Long of NDERF / OBERF (NDE/OBE Research Foundation) has reviewed both articles in this week's issue of the Journal Science, including commentary. He also provided comments on the articles by NDE Researcher P.M.H. Atwater L.H.D.

http://www.nderf.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=22614#22614

Highlights: "Neither research team claimed to produce an OBE. Both research tems were clear they were tricking the body's sensory system and creating an illusion. Apparently no research subject in either study claimed to have a real OBE. These studies got a lot more press coverage than was warrented by the limited significance of their findings."

"A true, real out-of-body experience, especially if an aspect or component of the near-death phenomenon, typically involves extensive movement and interaction not only within the environment of the individual, but in novel, different, or far-flung environments unknown to the individual that are explored and investigated at length. When these individuals return to their bodies, they are able to recount in detail what they observed, heard, touched, sensed, smelled, and witnessed. Third-party verification of such details is commonplace."

"True out-of-body experiences do not match the results of the experiments conducted by the two neuroscientists reported on in Science Journal. What they did find, though, is quite intriguing and may indeed explain the phenomenon of the double-walker counterpart people have claimed that they had - since the earliest of times."

I personally found it quite amusing to see misinformed one-sided skeptics on science forums running with this misunderstood research screaming, "I told you so! Another example of science over superstition!" Which objectively proves that being one-sided is being dumb-sided, as the vast majority of skeptics I have met have never honestly researched BOTH SIDES of the issue regarding these things. Confirmation Bias is LOL. (I on the otherhand *constantly* read up on all sides of the issue regarding these Phenomenon, reading material from both Researchers and Skeptics).

If they had, they would have known that the research in question produced NOTHING like a real OBE, and regardless can not explain the overwhelming numbers of Veridical Details obtained during real OBEs, especially those that have been documented as occuring during a state in which the brain waves are flat-lined following cardiac arrest.

5 comments:

Tim said...

I think what would be very useful is an audit showing what % of well-documented OBEs or NDEs have included verified veridical elements.

Eteponge said...

I will eventually be posting what I personally feel are the strongest Veridical Cases indepth, as well as Research Studies done on Veridical NDEs/OBEs by various Researchers such as Dr. Pim Van Lommel and Dr. Michael Sabom and Dr. Kenneth Ring and Dr. Melvin Morse. Those are coming up in additional blog topics.

Ulysses said...

Eteponge,
Since you will be posting about psychic detectives, you may want to take a look at news like this:
http://www.indianasnewscenter.com/news/local/9402201.html
Blessings,
Ulysses
http://www.SpiritAndScience.org/

Ulysses said...

The link didn't come out right.
Here it is again:
http://tinyurl.com/28okm2

Jime said...

Hi Eteponge,

Your blog is very good. People need to understand the best evidence for afterlife and paranormal phenomena.

I think part of the problem is the public propaganda of the pseudo-skeptics (debunkers). They try to convince the public about the "irrationality" of beliefs on paranormal or afterlife.

I've read your comment on Winston Wu's article against debunkers. There are other very good articles on pseudo-skeptics:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudoskepticism
http://paginas.terra.com.br/educacao/criticandokardec/criticizingskepticism.htm
http://www.suppressedscience.net/skepticism.html
http://members.aol.com/ddrasin/zen.html
http://www.tricksterbook.com/ArticlesOnline/CSICOPoverview.htm
http://www.scientificexploration.org/jse/articles/pdf/16.1_leiter.pdf
http://www.canlyme.com/quackwatch.html
http://www.quackpotwatch.org/
http://www.humanticsfoundation.com/barrettvsrosenthal.htm

Most pseudo-skeptics are atheists and materialists (or metaphysical naturalists). Their motivation is philosophical, not scientific. As wrote Winston, they try to manipulate data on paranormal to fit them in their naturalistic/materialistic/atheistic wordlview. This is the hidden "secret" of their hostile and pseudo-rational behaviour.

As a consequence, their core philosophy should be exposed and rebutted too:
http://www.answeringinfidels.com http://www.atheistdelusion.net/
http://atheismsucks.blogspot.com/

I don't have religious beliefs. I respect any kind of beliefs, including atheism. However, I don't respect atheist propaganda masked as "science", "critical thinking" or "reason".

Science should be a tool to find out the truth; not to promote one own philosophical dogma.

People should know the above links. Some honest (non philosophical-dogmatists) skeptics can rectify if they see correct criticism against pseudo-skepticism. (Most honest skeptics don't know this critical information; and neither the scientific evidence on paranormal and afterlife)